The 101 Association, Inc.
For the preservation and enjoyment of 1928 to 1931 Indian Scout Motocycles
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1930 Scout wheel removal

  • 28 Aug 2023 1:54 PM
    Message # 13246728
    Anonymous

    I am hoping to get some advice on taking off the wheels of my 1930 Scout.  I have had it for about seven years now and I have been generally following the maintenance schedule in the 101 club manual. The previous owner indicated he had packed the hubs with grease at some point before he sold it to me, so I have never had a reason to remove the wheels until now as I only manage about a 100 miles a year (10 rides or so each about 10 miles long).   I would like to change the tires, as the current ones have good tread but have developed some age related sidewall cracks.  My problem is that I am not really sure about the wheel removal process itself.  It is probably a pretty basic procedure but there is nothing about how to do this in the manual (Tech Tip 6 gets somewhat close) and I have found nothing useful via internet searches.  I know I need to raise the wheel first and then remove the axle from the wheel to take the wheel off. Other than removing the nuts that hold the axles onto the frame, I am not sure what the next step is and what tools I will need, for both the front and back.  Before I start just randomly loosening things, I wanted to see if there is any advice/web pages/videos out there to help ensure I don’t end up doing something wrong and ruining a precious part.  I am guessing since there is not a lot of info about it, removing the wheels must be pretty straightforward and relatively easy, but I just wanted to see if anyone can offer some tips before I accidentally ruin my wheels or make the process much harder than it needs to be.  Thanks!


    Last modified: 28 Aug 2023 1:55 PM | Anonymous
  • 28 Aug 2023 7:54 PM
    Reply # 13246941 on 13246728

    Best is to have a bike lift where you prop up and secure the bike and has the option to drop the wheel straight down that is. Otherwise it is almost needed a safe way to hoist the rear up in the air because the rear stay is in the way.

    If you don't have either of the options, alone solo and don't want to lay down the bike on the ground, the going is tougher..

    Loosening the wheels and its linkages and chain is pretty easy and straight forward. Do all that before pulling out the long wheel axle. Between the rear wheel hub and frame both sides there is distance pieces.Take note of what side the long and short distance is placed, and what way they are turned.

    What can be tricky the first time is to have control of the loose wheel and not scratch up the loose chainguard at the same time, if the rear mudguard is without the hinge..and you don't have a helping hand.. Here I am talking about the 28-29 version.

    The modern tires are much stiffer than the old balloon tires, so the method shown in the Factory Service Shots where you deflate the tire and squeeze it out sideways between the fender and rear stay is not either easy or safe, the bike tip over easily. Even with the hinge, the tire is too tall for the opening with the stay down.

    If you opt to remove the chainguard in the process, as it is in one piece and not two parts it is fiddly and cumbersam to thread out between the wheel and frame and kick starter and engine and the long wheel axle must be taken out so the wheel is heavy and difficult to manipulate. It is so tight quarters that scratches and dents is hard to avoid. The front top mounting bracket for the chainguard can be damn tight. The one piece chainguard is a design flaw from factory in my opinion! And the fender hinge should have been standard from the beginning!

    The bike is not sitting secure on the rear stay when one of the wheels is out, the bike easily slides forward and foil up the rear stand if you do not tie and lock the rear stand with a piece of chain or ribbon between the stay bottom rail and forward to the bike frame. 

    If you have the export front wheel stand, it is not possible with the bike on the stand to take the wheel out past the front mudguard with the tire inflated, the stand must be folded back and the front end lifted. In all cases the front end needs to be lifted. That is easier done with some blocks under the engine frame. 


    Last modified: 28 Aug 2023 8:03 PM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 29 Aug 2023 3:00 AM
    Reply # 13247047 on 13246728

    Hello Lars , if you have the hinged rear gaurd , then wheel should come out quite easily  and yes let the tyre down first . IF you have no hinge , I have a funny tale about that , I had reason to remove the rear wheel on my 1928 101 in a Rally field in Holland and had two friends lift the bike so I could get the wheel out !!

    Later that year I had to remove it again but on my own . I had seen on other earlier 101's that the rear left stay has a bolt at the mudgaurd end and always thought someone had changed this from the rivet but then a penny dropped !! so removed the axle and other attachments , removed the rear stay and the wheel just come out sideways between the gaurd and front stay . east peasy as we say over here !! Luckily my friends saw the funny side of this too !

    Obviously without a front stand you'll have to have a jack to lift the front end or a block of wood . I've been lucky and never had a bike topple over like this but obvioously have to ballance it centrally . Good luck , Ken
    Last modified: 29 Aug 2023 3:06 AM | Ken Lee
  • 29 Aug 2023 9:21 PM
    Reply # 13247554 on 13246728
    Anonymous

    Thank you for the replies!  For the front wheel, I assume I first remove the bolt holding the brake hub assembly at the fork, then I remove the cotter pins and axle nuts.  What do I do next?  Do I just pull the axle from one direction at this point?  From the pictures in Tech Tip 6, it looks like I need to remove the items 17-22 (various thin nuts, washers, rings) before I can remove the axle but I am not sure how to do this when the axle is still in the fork frame. Sorry if this is obvious, but I am still confused.


  • 30 Aug 2023 8:42 AM
    Reply # 13247741 on 13246728
    Anonymous

    For these wheels are there two axles?  Such as a solid one that connects to the frame (not shown in Tech Tip 6) which goes through the hollow one that holds in the bearings (item 5 from Tech Tip 6)?  Is the solid axle the one that Carl called the long axle?

  • 30 Aug 2023 9:02 AM
    Reply # 13247753 on 13246728

    Remove the pin and nut from one side and gently knock the axle out , it will come out easier if you leave the wheel on the ground (assuming you have a jack under the engine) just taking up the weight of the bike , when the axle is out you will have to raise the bike to get the wheel and brake anchor out . Good idea to take pic at each stage to help remember how to put back ! Yes think the one Carl calls the long axle is the one through the wheel and bolts each side of the forks . Take note of any spacers that drop down when you remove the axle . hope you get this !? Good luck , Ken

    only way to learn is get stuck in and ask others .

  • 30 Aug 2023 10:49 AM
    Reply # 13247827 on 13246728
    Anonymous

    Thank you so much!  The fact there are two axles (the hollow one that holds in the bearings and the solid one you knock out that connects to the frame/forks and goes through the hollow one) was the missing piece of the puzzle.  I thought there was just one axle per wheel (like a bicycle) and could not figure out how I could possibly remove it.  

  • 30 Aug 2023 3:54 PM
    Reply # 13248000 on 13246728
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    Lars, the hollow axle is an integral part of the wheel assembly, and does not need to be undone to effect wheel removal. 

    The front wheel will come out easily enough, just with removal of the two split pins and large nuts onthe outer side of the fork rockers. There is not usually enough room to just take one off and knock it thru, as the other side nut will snag on the fender brace.

    It is best to have the wheel well in the air and well supported for removal, but particularly replacement. best way of lifting the bike by far is to fabricate an arrangement that supports the two front down tube lugs, jacking underneath the engine cases can cause damage unless careful. 

    Use a soft drift on the axle, as you do not want to damage the threads. The weight of the wheel will make it stiff, and also any slight misalignment in the rockers will make it hard to remove, so take care.

    Yes, you will need to deflate the tyre to wriggle it out past the rockers, and also to put it back in, this is why you need to have the bike well supported. A friend to help may be usefull here, when replacing the wheel by myself, I put one foot under the tire to lift it, while I wriggle it past the rockers using both hands.

    The rear can be removed With the hinged section up, or past the removable strut on the 28/29 with the bike on the rear stand, but it is far easier to be able to jack the bike up high and after the initial rear movement to clear the brake plate from the frame, drop the wheel straight down. If in a pinch propped up un a milkcrate or similar over a step will give you enough height, Ken,  I had to do that on the steps of the cricket pavillion at the Men of Kent Sittingbourne Run one year :). 

    Remember first to disconnect the rear brake rod and the clamp that fixes the brake plate to the frame tube.

    Bear in mind that when replacing the rear wheel assembly as a whole, you need to line the forward arm section of the brake plate ( that anchors to the frame) horizontally past the rear frame rails where they meet the casting, as it will not rotate past the left hand frame rail once the spindle is in.

    If you need to change the tyre by the side of the road, probably easiest to find a blanket and lay the bike on its side .

    Carl-Erik is correct about the chainguard, it is  real pain. If you have a patinated rider bike, not a bad idea to cut it and use a couple of screws and a plate to make a two piece chainguard, this will make wheel removal , chain replacement or sprocket change much easier.

    The only sensible way to fit or remove the changuard without damage is to remove the rear wheel first anyway. If you do feel the need to remove it with the wheel in place, you need to remove the right hand footbaord, and brake rod, and tie the brake arm fully forward, and then pull the guard forwrd while twisting it, and rotating the wheel. If you have taped and greased all painted parts in the vicinity, and are brave and do it forcefully in one movement, you may save the paint. More likely, you will strip paint from the chainguard, frame  and wheel rim, but the blood shed from your knuckles is a close approximation to Indian Red and will spill so freely that it may cover the damage.

  • 30 Aug 2023 4:27 PM
    Reply # 13248026 on 13246728
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    As an addition, I have a long piece of brass rod that I use as a drift for the axles, it won't damage the threaded ends and will support the wheel loosely to avoid the need to have a second pair of hands available.

  • 01 Sep 2023 10:55 AM
    Reply # 13248992 on 13246728
    Anonymous

    Tim-thanks for all the extra advice!  It makes me wonder how a rider in 1930 was able to handle changing a flat tire.  I am hoping to have some time this weekend to try to attempt the wheel removal.  We will see how it goes!

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