The 101 Association, Inc.
For the preservation and enjoyment of 1928 to 1931 Indian Scout Motocycles
"You can't wear out an Indian Scout"
 

Oil loss 45" via breather valve

  • 28 Oct 2017 10:06 AM
    Message # 5408772

    Hi,

    I have a lot of oil loss on my 101, the timing gear cover has no breather valve. the cover is closed.

    The only breather valve is on the left front side of the motor case , it has a perfect disc in place.

    Baffle plates underneath the pistons / cylinders are in perfect shape.

    It is so much, relativly, I had to extend the breather valve tube with a flexible tube to the rear of the bike to prevent the bike from from being all under oil. It is rather like a mini oilpump.

    The engine is in overhaul at this time. pistons are two ring pistons no oil ring. I'm going to chance by three ring pistons, no real oil ring but nose ring which acts as an oil ring but let pass a little amount of oil.

    Anyone has tips to reduce the oil loss ? 

  • 29 Oct 2017 1:27 PM
    Reply # 5434445 on 5408772

    My immediate impression is that you pump too much oil into the engine. The actual oil consumption in a fresh and/or overhauled engine is really surprisingly small, so the pump needs to be adjusted down dangerously much, almost all the way in, (but at the minimum about 2 turns out, fully turned in the pump delivers no oil at all!) and a very close eye needs to be kept on the crankcase level.

    Last modified: 29 Oct 2017 1:37 PM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 30 Oct 2017 7:57 AM
    Reply # 5449163 on 5408772
    Tim Raindle (Administrator)

    Is there a breather disc in the timing case behind the cams, to regulate pressure difference between camcase and motor? This should be there with the left hand breather, and is removed with the rh breather modification. 

  • 30 Oct 2017 5:23 PM
    Reply # 5456931 on 5408772

    Carl,

    Overhauled engine is still to complete. But with the engine before overhaul I allready turned down oil supply  to a minimum, a bit less  and pistons tendenced to have to much friction. I had about 2litres (1/2 a gallon) oil consumption at 400 km (250 miles).  I had 0.15 mm (0.006") play between cil and pistons.

    What is the correct lenght for the oil adjusting bolt ?

    What happened is on a ride suddenly engine failed, on opening I found a cracked open rear connecting rod. I also found a few very pitted big end rollers amoungst good rollers, so I guess the guy who did the engine was no mecanic. Although I rode the bike for about 10 years.

     

    Tim,

    Yes there is a breather valve in the right case behind the timing gears.

    How to make sure it works correctly ?

  • 03 Nov 2017 8:21 PM
    Reply # 5522742 on 5408772

    There is really only 2 reasons to why excessive oil is pumped out of the breather. One is too high crankcase pressure and the other is too high oil level.

    Too high crankcase pressure can have a few causes, by either restricted ventilation or something wrong with the pistons, rings or lining.

    I can only guess, based on your info. Most probably the first time you felt the engine slow down or run laboriously, the piston rings got fried and lost tension. It could be caused by a temporary overheat from a number of reasons, Obvious is a lack of oil but also too much oil is also a reason that could cause the engine fry because oil is slow to shear heat.  

    Other cause for overheating is slow running, lugging, ignition timing wrong, lean carburator adjustment, high speed! With fried rings from there it usually is just a slip-slippery-slope downwards with more and more blowby, when combusted gasses gets past the rings. Those hot gasses elevates the temperature in the oil locally -and in general- to the level that the oil can break down. The amount of oil splashing around and churned in the crankcase is very small, so it gets overheated easily. 

    With too much oil, the heat transfer from the oil to the air is impaired and heat is building up together with the brake of the spinning crankshaft that the oil makes, makes the engine labour more than normal and it all results in overheating. Oil is very slow to shear heat so it needs to be churned to a mist in order for the small drops to get in touch with as much air as possible to cool off.

    Yeah.. I know...It's a wonder that it work at all!


    Last modified: 03 Nov 2017 8:49 PM | Carl-Erik Renquist
  • 03 Nov 2017 8:26 PM
    Reply # 5522773 on 5408772

    The original oil pump screw threaded part, including its rounded top, is 19mm long and the head is 3,2mm thick. The nut is 3,2mm thick. When the nut is threaded all the way in to the screw head, and the screw is threaded all the way in the pump, the pump does not deliver any oil at all. 

    There is a faint filed mark on the head and according to factory notes, the mark should point straight up when the screw is all the way in. Factory setting for the Scout is 2,5 but I recommend start with 3 turns out. Adjust delivery in 1/6th turn but not more than ¼ of a turn at one time before checking the crankcase level after some riding.

    Less than two turns out is dangerously small amount of oil delivered and crankcase level should be observed very closely.

    When I check the oil level on my bike, I regard it normal that up to but not more than 1 deciliter overflow when I remove the level screw. And if no oil is overflowing, I open the pump screw up a bit!


    Last modified: 03 Nov 2017 8:52 PM | Carl-Erik Renquist
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